From: Final Conflict <email@example.com>
Date: Thursday, October 25, 2001 4:04 PM
Subject: FC 1758 - 11th Sept Physics
FEATURE: 11TH SEPTEMBER - LAWS OF PHYSICS SUSPENDED?
[Ed: As always we publish such information to encourage healthy debate]:
911: Muslims Suspend Laws of Physics!
The following was written by J. McMichael ( firstname.lastname@example.org ) and sent to me under the title "I Tried To Be Patriotic." I have taken the liberty of cleaning up some typos, and pass it on to you with permission. This article contains some long URLs which may be broken in transmission. You will have to reconstruct these URLs to reach the websites.
I tried to be patriotic. I tried to believe. I watched those quarter mile high buildings fall through their jaw-dropping catastrophes over and over again. I listened to the announcer and the experts explain what had happened. And I worked at my pitiful lack of faith, pounding my skull with the remote control and staring on the flickering images on the TV screen. But poor mental peasant that I am, I could not escape the teachings of my forefathers. I fear I am trapped in my time, walled off from further scientific understanding by my inability to abandon the Second Millennium mindset.
But enough of myself. Let us move on to the Science and Technology of the 21st Century. Those of you who cannot believe should learn the official truth by rote and perhaps you will be able to hide your ignorance.
Here are the bare bones of the WTC incident:
North tower struck 8:45, collapsed 10:29;
South tower struck 9:03, collapsed 9:50;
Using jet fuel to melt steel is an amazing discovery, really. It is also amazing that until now, no one had been able to get it to work, and that proves the terrorists were not stupid people. Ironworkers fool with acetylene torches, bottled oxygen, electric arcs from generators, electric furnaces, and other elaborate tricks, but what did these brilliant terrorists use? Jet fuel, costing maybe 80 cents a gallon on the open market.
Let us consider: One plane full of jet fuel hit the north tower at 8:45 AM, and the fuel fire burned for a while with bright flames and black smoke. We can see pictures of the smoke and flames shooting from the windows. Then by 9:03 (which time was marked by the second plane's collision with the south tower), the flame was mostly gone and only black smoke continued to pour from the building. To my simple mind, that would indicate that the first fire had died down, but something was still
burning inefficiently, leaving soot (carbon) in the smoke. A fire with sooty smoke is either low temperature or starved for oxygen -- or both.
But by 10:29 AM, the fire in north tower had accomplished the feat that I find so amazing: It melted the steel supports in the building, causing a chain reaction within the structure that brought the building to the ground. And with less fuel to feed the fire, the south tower collapsed only 47 minutes after the plane collision, again with complete destruction. This is only half the time it took to destroy the north tower.
I try not to think about that. I try not to think about a petroleum fire burning for 104 minutes, just getting hotter and hotter until it
reached 1538 degrees Celsius (2800 Fahrenheit) and melted the steel (steel is about 99% iron; for melting point of iron, see
I try not to wonder how the fire reached temperatures that only bottled oxygen or forced air can produce. And I try not to think about all the steel that was in that building -- 200,000 tons of it. For statistics see this URL:
I try to forget that heating steel is like pouring syrup onto a plate: you can't get it to stack up. The heat just flows out to the colder parts of the steel, cooling off the part you are trying to warm up. If you pour it on hard enough and fast enough, you can
get the syrup to stack up a little bit. And with very high heat brought on very fast, you can heat up the one part of the object, but the heat will quickly spread out and the part will cool off the moment you stop.
When the heat source warms the last cold part of the object, the heat stops escaping and the point of attention can be warmed.
If the north tower collapse was due to heated steel, why did it take 104 minutes to reach the critical temperature? See this URL: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/sept112001.html
Am I to believe that the fire burned all that time, getting constantly hotter until it reached melting temperature? Or did it burn hot and steady throughout until 200,000 tons of steel were heated molten - on one plane load of jet fuel? Quantity of steel in WTC:
Thankfully, I found this note on the BBC web page
"Fire reaches 800 [degrees] C - hot enough to melt steel floor supports." That is one of the things I warned you about: In the 20th Century, steel melted at 1538 degrees Celsius (2800 F.) See this URL:
But in the 21st Century, it melts at 800 degrees C (1472 F). This might be explained as a reporter's mistake -- 800 to 900 C is the temperature for forging wrought iron. As soft as wrought iron is, of course, it would never be used for structural steel in a landmark skyscraper. (Descriptions of cast iron, wrought iron, and steel and relevant temperatures discussed at
But then lower down, the BBC page repeats the 800 C number in bold, and the article emphasizes that the information comes from Chris Wise, "Structural Engineer." Would this professional individual permit himself to be misquoted in a global publication?
I feel it coming on again -- that horrible cynicism that causes me to doubt the word of the major anchor-persons. Please just think of this essay as a plea for help, and do NOT let it interfere with your own righteous faith. The collapse of America's faith in its leaders must not become another casualty on America's skyline.
In my diseased mind, I think of the floors of each tower like a stack of LP (33 1/3 RPM) records, only they were square instead of circular. They were stacked around a central spindle that consisted of multiple steel columns stationed in a square around the 103 elevator shafts.See these URL's: http://www.skyscraper.org/tallest/t_wtc.htm and
With this core bearing the weight of the building, the platters were tied together and stabilized by another set of steel columns at the outside rim, closely spaced and completely surrounding the structure. This resulting structure was so stable that the top of the towers swayed only three feet in a high wind. The architects called it a "tube-within-a-tube design."
The TV experts told us that the joints between the floors and central columns melted (or the floor trusses, or the central columns, or the exterior columns, depending on the expert) and this caused the floor to collapse and fall onto the one below. This overloaded the joints for the lower floor, and the two of them fell onto the floor below, and so on. Like dominos (see
Back in the early 1970s when the World Trade Towers were built, the WTC was the tallest building that had ever been built in the history of the world. If we consider the architectural engineers, suppliers, builders, and city inspectors in the job, we can imagine they would be very careful to over-build every aspect of the building. If one bolt was calculated to serve, you can bet that three or four were used. If there was any doubt about the quality of a girder or steel beam, you can be sure it was rejected. After all, any failures would attract the attention of half the civilized world, and no corporation wants a reputation for that kind of stupidity -- particularly if there are casualties.
I do not know the exact specifications for the WTC, but I know in many trades (and some I've worked), a structural member must be physically capable of three times the maximum load that will ever be required of it (Breaking Strength = 3 x Working Strength). Given that none of those floors was holding a grand piano sale or an elephant convention that day, it is unlikely that any of them were loaded to the maximum.
Thus, any of the floors should have been capable of supporting more than its own weight plus the two floors above it. I suspect the WTC was engineered for safer margins than the average railroad bridge, and the actual load on each floor was less than 1/6 the BreakingStrength. The platters were constructed of webs of steel trusses. Radial trusses ran from the perimeter of the floor to the central columns, and concentric rings of trusses connected the radial trusses, forming a pattern like a spider web (see
Where the radial trusses connected with the central columns, I imagine the joints looked like the big bolted flanges where girders meet on a bridge -- inches thick bolts tying the beams into the columns. The experts tell us that the heat of the fire melted the steel, causing the joints to fail. In order to weaken those joints, a fire would have to heat the bolts or the flanges to the point where the bolts fell apart or tore through the steel. But here is another thing that gives me problems -- all the joints between the platter and the central columns would have to be heated at the same rate in order to collapse at the same time -- and at the same rate as the joints with the outer rim columns on all sides -- else one side of the platter would fall, damaging the floor below and making obvious distortions in the skin of the building, or throwing the top of tower off balance and to one side.
But there were no irregularities in the fall of the main structure of those buildings. They fell almost as perfectly as a deck of cards in the hands of a magician doing an aerial shuffle. This is particularly worrisome since the first plane struck one side
of the north tower, causing (you would think) a weakening on that side where the exterior columns were struck, and a more intense fire on that side than on the other side. And the second plane struck near the corner of the south tower at an angle that caused much of the fuel to spew out the windows on the adjacent side. See this URL:
Yet the south tower also collapsed in perfect symmetry, spewing dust in all directions like a Fourth of July sparkler burning to the ground. Oh, wait. Here is a picture showing the top 25 floors of one tower (probably south) toppling over sideways
Why are there no reports of this cube of concrete and steel (measuring 200 ft. wide, 200 ft. deep, and 200 ft high), falling from a 1000 feet into the street below? But implosion expert Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition Inc. in Phoenix, MD is of the opinion that it happened:
Observing the collapses on television news, Loizeaux says the 1,362-ft-tall south tower, which was hit at about the 60th floor,
failed much as one would like (sic) fell a tree http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc_enr.htm
I have seen a videotaped rerun of the south tower falling. In that take, the upper floors descend as a complete unit. All the way, the upper-floor unit was canted over as shown on the BBC page, sliding down behind the intervening buildings like a piece of stage scenery. That scene is the most puzzling of all. Since the upper floors were not collapsed (the connection between the center columns and the platters were intact), this assembly would present itself to the lower floors as a platter WITHOUT a central hole. How then would a platter without a hole slide down the spindle with the other platters? Where would the central columns go if they could not penetrate the upper floors as they fell?
The only model I can find for the situation would be this: If the fire melted the floor joints so that the collapse began from the 60th floor downward, the upper floors would be left hanging in the air, supported only by the central columns. This situation would soon become unstable and the top 40 floors would topple over (to use Loizeaux's image) much like felling the top 600 ft. from a 1300 ft. tree. This model would hold also hold for the north tower. According to Chris Wise's "domino" doctrine, the collapse began only at the floor with the fire, not at the penthouse. How was it that the upper floor simply disappeared instead of crashing to the earth as a block of thousands of tons of concrete and steel?
The amazing thing is that no one (but Loizeaux) even mentions this phenomenon, much less describing the seismic event it must have caused. Where is the ruin where the 200ft x 200ft x 50 story- object struck? Forty floors should have caused a ray of devastation 500 ft. into the surrounding cityscape. In trying to reconstruct and understand this event, we have to know
whether the scenes we are watching are edited or simply shown raw as they were recorded.
But let us return to the fire. Liquid fuel does not burn hot for long. Liquid fuel evaporates (or boils) as it burns, and the vapor
burns as it boils off. If the ambient temperature passes the flash point of the fuel and oxygen is plentiful, the process builds to an
explosion that consumes the fuel. Jet fuel boils at temperatures above 176 degrees Celsius (350 F) and the vapor flashes into flame at 250 degrees Celsius (482 F). In an environment of 1500 degrees, jet fuel spread thinly on walls, floor, and ceiling would boil off very quickly. And then it would either burn, or run out of oxygen and smother itself. Or it would simply disperse out the open windows (some New Yorkers claimed they could smelled the spilled fuel).
In no case would an office building full of spilled jet fuel sustain a fire at 815 degrees C (1500 F) for 104 minutes -- unless it was fed bottled oxygen, forced air, or something else atypical of a fire in a high-rise office building. Certainly, the carpets, wallpaper, occasional desks -- nothing else in that office would produce that temperature. What was burning? OK, since it was mentioned, I am also upset with the quantity of concrete dust. See this URL:
No concrete that I have ever known pulverizes like that. It is unnerving. My experience with concrete has shown that it will crumble under stress, but rarely does it just give up the ghost and turn to powder. But look at the pictures -- it is truly a fine dust in great billowing clouds spewing a hundred feet from the collapsing tower. And the people on the ground see little more than an opaque wall of dust -- with inches of dust filling the streets and the lungs afterward.
What has happened here? I need a faith booster shot here. I would like to find a pictures of all those platters piled up on each other on the ground, just as they fell -- has anyone seen a picture like that? I am told it was cumulative weight of those platters falling on each other that caused the collapse, but I don't see the platters pilled up liked flapjacks on the ground floor.
Instead, the satellite pictures show the WTC ruins like an ash pit:
I am told by a friend that a Dr. Robert Schuller was on television telling about his trip to the ruins. He announced in the interview that there was not a single block of concrete in that rubble. From the original 425,000 cubic yards of concrete that went into the building, all was dust. How did that happen?
I have just one other point I need help with -- the steel columns in the center. When the platters fell, those quarter-mile high central steel columns (at least from the ground to the fire) should have been left standing naked and unsupported in the air, and then they should have fallen intact or in sections to the ground below, clobbering buildings hundreds of feet from the WTC site like giant trees falling in the forest. But I haven't seen any pictures showing those columns standing, falling, or lying on the ground. Nor have I heard of damage caused by them.
Now I know those terrorist must have been much better at these things than I am. I would take one look at their kamikaze plans with commercial jets and I would reject it as -- spectacular maybe, but not significantly damaging. The WTC was not even a strategic military target. But if I were a kamikaze terrorist, I would try to hit the towers low in the supports to knock the towers down, maybe trapping the workers with the fire and burning the towers from the ground up, just as the people in last 20 stories were trapped. Even the Japanese kamikaze pilots aimed for the water line.
But you see, those terrorists were so sure the building would magically collapse that way, the pilot who hit the north tower chose a spot just 20 floors from the top. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/worldtrade010911.html
And the kamikaze for south tower was only slightly lower -- despite a relatively open skyline down to 25 or 30 stories.
The terrorists apparently predicted the whole scenario -- the fuel fire, the slow weakening of the structure, and the horrific collapse of the building - phenomena that the architects and the NY civil engineering approval committees never dreamed of.
Even as you righteously hate those men, you have to admire them for their genius.
Few officials or engineers have been surprised by this turn of events -- apparently everyone certified it for airplane collisions, but almost no one was surprised when both collisions caused utter catastrophes in both towers. In fact, their stutters and mumbles and circumlocutions would make a politician blush: "Eventually, the loss of strength and stiffness of the materials
resulting from the fire, combined with the initial impact damage, would have caused a failure of the truss system supporting a
floor, or the remaining perimeter columns, or even the internal core, or some combination."
In a hundred years of tall city buildings, this kind of collapse has never happened before. Never. It was not predicted by any of the experts involved when the WTC towers were built. But now that it has happened, everybody understands it perfectly and nobody is surprised. Is this civil engineering in the Third Millennium -- a galloping case of perfect hindsight?
Only one I have found candidly admitted his surprise: Observing the collapses on television news, Loizeaux says the 1,362-ft-tall south tower, which was hit at about the 60th floor, failed much as one would like (sic) fell a tree. That is what was
expected, says Loizeaux. But the 1,368-ft-tall north tower, similarly hit but at about the 90th floor, "telescoped," says Loizeaux. It failed vertically, he adds, rather than falling over. "I don't have a clue," says Loizeaux, regarding the cause of the telescoping.
There was one highly qualified engineer in New Mexico who thought the collapse could only happen with the help of demolition explosives, and he was foolish enough to make the statement publicly. But then he recanted ten days later and admitted the whole thing was perfectly natural and unsurprising. I wonder what happened in those ten days to make him so smart on the subject so quickly. Both articles at the Albuquerque Journal: http://www.abqjournal.com/news/aqvan09-11-01.htm
And then, as though demonstrating how normal this "building collapsing" phenomenon is, WTC buildings Six and Seven "collapsed," too: "Other buildings - including the 47-story Salomon Brothers building [WTC 7] - caved in later, weakened by the earlier collapses, and more nearby buildings may still fall, say engineers."
It seems no building in the area, regardless of design, is immune to galloping WTC collapse-itis. It never happened in the 20th Century, but welcome to the physical universe laws of the Third Millennium. Pardon me, but this recitation has not given me the relief I hoped for. I must get back to work. I believe in the president, the flag, and the Statue of Liberty. I believe in the honesty of the FBI and the humility of military men. I believe in the network news anchor-persons, who strive to learn the truth, to know the truth, and to tell the truth to the audience.
And I believe all of America is so well educated in the basic physics discussed above, they would rise up in fury if anyone tried to pull a cheap Hollywood trick on them. Hand me that remote, will you? I believe <clonk>. I believe <clonk>.
I believe ...
Celsius/Fahrenheit conversion tool at
FEEDBACK: LAWS OF PHYSICS CRITIQUE 1
October 26th, 2001
I'm afraid this article is not very convincing. Plain fact is, that the towers collapsed by a pancaking effect, once one floor was down the weight started to drag the one below it, not to mention the plane's weight and the melting of the girders was what would bow the first two floors affected maybe three, it is not meant that all the girders melted. Once the sequence began the whole thing went.
This has been explained, and I didn't need it explained it was perfectly obvious to me anyway just watching it. As for "laws of physics" I don't notice much math or anything in this article. As for the passing reference to lack of this and that electrical sparking or whatever, if you take this line of thought far enough they never collapsed at all.
I don't see why this is such a problem. And even if there was a little help with explosives placed in the building somewhere, that does NOT mean that two hijaked planes didn't get piloted into them. There is a certain potential for this to happen by accident, which is why upper floors of buildings are lit up at night and/or they have lights on poles on the top - to warn planes not to get too low.
FEEDBACK: LAWS OF PHYSICS CRITIQUE 2
I will spare the list the incredulity of posting the entire previously posted article to ask one question:
Does anyone actually believe this load of crap foisted by some amateur claiming he can figure out that somehow only 900 lbs of jet fuel caused so much damage? That somehow, there is some secret conspiracy, perhaps those black helicopters circling our cities or the planes carrying that infamous Black Hawk technology they allegedly flew on remote carried 30 tons of C4 that no one knew about except some Baggage loader from Canton, Ohio somehow
had something to do with it.
Instead of pointing people to mindless near fabricated press stories from London of all places (now there is a place for accuracy in journalism) consider only the facts: Basically this guy needed to take a college level Physics and Gen Chem class and has failed to do that -
The total weight, not mass of the towers, was 1.25 million tons.
The Collapse energy was 2 terajoules. (2 x 10 to the 12th power)
The equivalence in TNT is 500 tons
The energy of 1 gal of jet fuel is 135,000 btu
The max fuel capacity of the Boeing 767 is 23,980 gal.
Approximate fuel detonated at impact is 3000 gal. Leaving approximately
20,000 gallons left after flight time calculated.
Explosive energy at impact of BOTH planes is 9*10(11th) joules
TNT equivalence: 180 tons
BURNING ENERGY FROM REMAINING FUEL: 5*10(12) joules
TNT equivalent: 990 tons
Boeing 767 max weight- 412,000 lbs Cruising Speed (Velocity avg) - 530 mph
Kinetic ENERGY -9*10(9th) joules where KE = 0.5 m*v(2) so that conversion
of weight to mass is w=mg where gravity is 9.8 m/s/s so m=w/g so 400,000 /
9.8 m/s/s = 40816kg
TNT equiv = 2 tons
Comparatively, a US tactical Warhead releases 300-200,000 tons of TNT upon impact detonation and the Hiroshima Bomb got rid of 20,000 tons of TNT.
Further, to understand Momentum and impact we must understand that there was NO momentum conserved via (momentum)P=mass*velocity and that if we use (mass1*velocity1)+(m2v2) = m1v1(prime) + m2v2(prime). We understand that the mass of the 2nd object (the tower) caused a complete stop of object 1. Simple right? Except that Mr. Conspiracy believe that someone ran quickly up the stairs FBI most likely) and set up a detonation to take down the WTC and kill 5,000 people. No wait, not that, it was Mossad. No wait, little green men from....the Philippines?
IF you actually believed this tripe, I feel sorry for you. Critical thinking is obviously NOT your forte. To prove my point, consider that melting points aside, give a low estimate of 15,000 gallons of fuel on board after impact. Ever barbeque in your backyard? Did you put the burgers on at the beginning when the FLAMES WERE SHOOTING TOWARD YOUR FACE ? or after they were white hot? Why? How long did it take?
Steel and iron are the same way. The specific heat of a substance is Q=M*C *(delta)T where c is the specific heat capacity. Of note here is that Steel and Iron both have LOW thermal conductivity ratios compared to Copper and Silver and Aluminum. 46 vs. 390, 420, and 240 respectively. This eliminates his conductivity argument since he didnt even bother to look it up or
question why it stayed hot for so long. What is left out by Johns genius is Stress and Strain. Heat the metal to its near melting point and the stress of the object (the tower) equaled the force per unit cross-sectional area. Combine that with a weakening of the tensile strength change in Length over Length original and you can now imagine how the reality occurred.
Plane hits and blows out 9 gazillion joules of energy to rock the tower. TNT exploded at impact was 180 tons. The structure was built to handle a 737 hitting it, not a 767. Small difference but it is a difference none the less. Ignoring the fact that the FBI was piloting the plane and that no stewardesses were bound and had their throats slit, after impact the steel slowly STRESSED under the weakening of the structure. While other braces held it up, eventually the Strain Modulus (S=F/A over omega) kicked in. The collapse of one floor led to a change in the towers momentum from 0 to 2,000,000,000,000 joules. Or 500 tons of TNT.
Next time perhaps this conspiracy theorist should look to Area 51 to find the secret non-fossil fuel jets we are flying and wonder IF they were responsible for killing Kennedy too. I checked my facts with the Dean of Physics at the University of Central Florida.
Hand me that remote will you? I believe (clank).... I believe (clank).... I believe (clank).... I believe (clank)....
FEEDBACK: LAWS OF PHYSICS CRITIQUE 3
Here is another reply -
Three critical things that the author does not take into account which I think are vital to understanding why the towers collapsed when and how they did.
1. The heat of the fire does not need to be so great that it will "melt" steel. It simply needs to be high enough that the yield and
ultimate strengths of the steel are exceeded. Remember that the steel will get soft at elevated temperature and the steel in the building was in a stressed state. If the temperature gets high enough so that the steel's mechanical properties decrease below the structurally imposed stress, it will fail long before it melts. As a structural member, steel is completely worthless above 1100 F (about 600 C).
2. Many of the steel-reinforced concrete columns and large steel structures within the building were insulated to protect them from fire. It would take a while for the heat to penetrate the insulation and thus the differing and extended times that it took to collapse each building. Due to the extent of the fire, which was probably unforeseen, and the damage from the plane's impact, the insulation only delayed the inevitable, it could not stop it as was intended (for a smaller fire with no accompanying structural damage).
3. The building's structural integrity was degraded by the impact of the plane. This degradation imposed unexpected, imbalanced loads on the structure. These loads, combined with the fire are what caused the building to fail like it did.
All in all, I do not find it unusual that the buildings would collapse given the circumstances and am quite happy with the official